The Visions-Objections Answered

The Seventh-day Adventist Publishing Association · Battle Creek, Mich. · Jun 26, 1866

The Visions—Objections Answered.

(Continued.)

Obj. 5. Duration of Christ's ministry in the most holy place. The point next in importance in the catalogue of the objector, is the duration of Christ's final work in the second apartment of the sanctuary in Heaven. It is claimed that when his ministry had progressed therein but five years, from 1844 to 1849, the visions declared that his time to remain there was more than half expired; hence that according to the visions, he should have come long ago; and as he has not come, the visions are, in the pure vernacular of these new objectors, a "deceptive cheat!" The language upon which this objection is based is found on p. 46 of Experience and Views, as follows: "I saw that the time for Jesus to be in the most holy place was nearly finished and that time cannot last but a very little longer." We are accustomed, when investigating Bible questions, to let one portion of the Bible explain another. Why may we not follow the same rule in reference to the visions, and let one portion of them explain another? According to this rule, the declaration that the time for Jesus to be in the most holy place was nearly finished, is explained by the sentence that immediately follows; namely, "Time cannot last but a very little longer." See also near the top of p. 47: "The sealing time is very short, and soon will be over." When is the sealing time? It synchronizes exactly with the period during which Christ ministers in the most holy place. Well, that time is very short, and soon will be over; in other words, the time for Christ to minister in the most holy place, will soon be finished. The burden of this testimony, then, is the shortness of time, and the very little space that is occupied by the sealing work and the cleansing of the sanctuary. The idea of comparison between the time that Jesus had then been in the most holy place, and the time he was to continue there, is not introduced.

The objector brings it up in this light, because in no other way does it afford the slightest ground for an objection. But it is not so expressed. It does not read, "I saw that the time for Jesus to be in the most holy place, in comparison with the time during which he has already been there, is nearly finished." But it would have to read so, before we should have any right to infer that his time there was then more than half, or three-quarters, finished, as is claimed. As we sincerely believe and understand it, the view is designed to impress upon the mind of the reader, simply the shortness of time and the nearness of the end.

And is not what is there shown, true as a matter of fact? Is not time almost finished? We appeal to every believer in the near advent. Could it have been truthfully expressed in any other manner? What should we have thought of a vision which had told us that his time in the most holy was not almost finished? And considering the shortness of his ministry in that apartment, would it not be true at any period of its progress, looking from that point out to the end, that it was nearly finished? There is an expression in James, stronger than any in this vision, which we believe was true in 1844, has been true ever since, and still is true, "Behold the Judge standeth before the door."

Obj. 6. Looking too far off for the coming of the Lord. On p. 46 of Experience and Views, we read, "I saw some looking too far off for the coming of the Lord. Time has continued a few years longer than they expected; therefore they think it may continue a few years more, and in this way their minds are being led from present truth, out after the world." This vision was given about 1849; and the opponent endeavors to transform it into an objection by the following very luminous comment: "The only time movement then in agitation was the 1854 movement; and as that has passed by, this vision is not of God." Oh, profundity of logic! Supposing this to have reference to some definite time, was it not even just possible that some were looking to a time later than 1854? It is a notorious fact that even from the first, later times have been set by many. But this testimony does not have reference to any definite time at all. The very language shows that it is indefinite. Some were putting off the coming of the Lord indefinitely, and so were being led away into the world. Was it the result of the '54 time movement, or can it be of any such movement, to lead its believers into the world? No; those who advocate such moves, while so doing must so far separate themselves from the world, as to have their lives outwardly at least correspond to their profession. This view had reference to commandment-keepers, and was given to warn them of the danger of saying in their hearts, My Lord delayeth his coming, and so being overcome by the spirit of the world. "Then," says one, "the Lord should have come, according to that, in at most, three or four years from that time." That does not follow. If the Lord was not coming for twenty years, it would not be safe for the church to look forward, indefinitely, half that distance for the event. By thus putting it off indefinitely, we lose the spirit of the doctrine entirely; and as a consequent, the spirit of the world comes in to take its place. In no other way do we believe that the church can be prepared for the truth they are to endure, and finally be ready for the Lord when he comes, but to be expecting and watching for the event as nigh at hand. Therefore we say, Do not put off the coming of the Lord. See to it that this great event does not become dim in the distance before your eyes. And this is simply what this vision teaches on this point.

Obj. 7. New Converts. In a vision given June 27, 1850, Experience and Views, p. 55, we read as follows concerning new converts to the truth: "But now time is almost finished, and what we have been years learning, they will have to learn in a few months." "Then," says the objector, "the Lord should have come in a few months from that time." Not at all. The view as is evident from testimony commencing on the middle of the preceding page, is showing what a preparation the people of God must have, to endure the suffering they would have to meet for Christ's sake, and escape the seven last plagues. The tenor of the vision is shown by such expressions as those: "Will ye shun the seven last plagues? If so ye must die that ye may live. Get ready, get ready. Ye must have a greater preparation than ye now have. Ye must be partakers of Christ's sufferings here, if ye would be partakers with him of his glory hereafter." "I saw that some of us have had time to get the

truth, and to advance step by step, and every step we have taken has given us strength to take the next." Then follows the sentence first quoted: "But now time is almost finished, and what we have been years learning, they will have to learn in a few months."

Now the strength we gain by our experience as we journey on is just proportioned to the draft that will be made upon it by the conflicts and trials before us.

That is, we need at any time all the strength that we have up to that time gained. And at no time is it true of any of us, that we have acquired more strength than we need to be able to stand. As time elapses, we meet heavier conflicts, and closer tests are brought to bear upon us. We can now easily see how it must be with new converts in any of the advanced stages of our progress. What those of longer standing have been learning by years of experience, and so have just acquired strength for future progress, new converts, in order to come up to the same degree of capability of endurance, as it is necessary that they should do, in order to stand, must learn in a very short space of time. And this will be more and more emphatically the case, as we draw nearer and nearer to the end.

Again, we find in the Bible declaration after declaration, put in the present tense, but yet having no reference to the time in which they were written, but only to some future time, when they would be specially applicable. See for instance the following: "The end of all things is at hand." "Him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead." "The Judge standeth before the door." "We shall not all sleep." "We which are alive and remain;" &c., 1 Pet. iv, 5, 7; James v, 9; 1 Cor. xv, 51; 1 Thess. iv, 15; declarations which applied, not to the generation then living, but to people 1800 years from that time. But no believer in the Bible ever thinks of objecting to it, on account of this testimony. Why? Because they understand the principle that a person in vision, or writing under the influence of the Spirit of God, is frequently carried forward into the future, and speaks from that standpoint as though the time was the present. Just apply the same principle to the case before us, and the objection vanishes at once, and all is harmonious and plain.

Obj. 8. The Devil in Heaven. The objector further says of the visions: "They teach that the Devil is in Heaven, trying to carry on the work of God." The view upon which this foolish and wicked misrepresentation is based, is found in Experience and Views pp. 43, 44. It is a view of events to occur at the end of the 2300 days, when Jesus changed his position from the holy to the most holy place. The Advent people, the church and the world, were represented as bowed before the throne. A great light was shed forth from the throne over the whole multitude; but only a few would receive it. This we understand to be the great light that came forth upon the doctrine of the advent under the first angel's message. When Jesus rose up from the throne, or changed his position to the most holy place, those who had received the light and were standing in his counsel, rose up with him, or followed him by faith in the change that he then made. The other portion of the company who had refused the light, were thereby left in ignorance of the change that had been made, and maintained their former position. They were as a consequence, left in darkness. The true light was now shining from another quarter. Not a ray of light was seen to pass to the multitude who still remained where they had stubbornly refused the light that had been tendered to them. This represents the position of the professed church and the world. And that it is their position we believe as firmly to-day as we ever did. What Adventist would think of turning to them for light? Concerning present truth, and present duty, they are in total darkness. But God still has a people there, who will yet come out where the light is shining and rejoice in its sanctifying influence. Then Satan was represented, as standing by the throne which Jesus had left, endeavoring to act in his stead, when the multitude sent up their blind petitions, and to affect them in a way to deceive them, and thus best suit his own purposes. From this it is claimed that Satan is seen to be in Heaven; and they then facetiously ask if he is "not in the wrong place for him?"

How soon their joy at this discovery would all have been spoiled, if they had taken the trouble to think but a step further. If this vision teaches that the Devil is in Heaven, then it teaches that the Advent people, the churches and the world are all in Heaven; for these were all represented as bowed right before the same throne, by the side of which Satan was represented as standing. But who in his sober senses can be induced to believe that it teaches any such thing as this! Neither does it any more teach that Satan is in Heaven. Any one can see that it simply is designed to show the relation that existed between Christ and the world, the change that took place in that relation when he changed his ministration, and how Satan steps in and endeavors to perform the office of a bestower of blessings upon those who have refused the light, in order to render still more complete their willful deception. And who has not seen this verified? In all the false revivals of the land, is there not ample evidence that they were carried on by an influence other than the Spirit of God?

Obj. 9. The Time of Trouble Commenced. It is alleged that it was shown in vision in 1849, that the time of trouble had commenced. The authority given is some expressions taken down as uttered in vision. Such detached declarations we cannot admit as proof of anything positive, because we do not know with what scenes they were connected in the vision, and hence are unable to locate them. We must have the whole vision with all its connections, and dependencies. For the sake, however, of not seeming to pass anything by without due consideration, we will admit the possibility of certain declarations having been made, and of their having reference to the time when they were spoken. The alleged expressions are these: "The time of trouble has commenced, it is begun. The reason why the four winds have not let go, is because the saints are not all sealed. It is on the increase, and will increase more and more. The trouble will never end till the earth is rid of the wicked. When Michael stands up, this trouble will be all over the earth." Now we do not know but her mind was carried forward in these expressions to future events; just as we read in Rev. xii, 12: "Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, and of the sea; for the Devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time." This declaration is worded as though it was a truth in the days of the writer, John; but we see that it has its application over 1700 years from that time. Yet as before remarked, admitting that the vision had reference to that time, what is proved by the expressions? It is proved that the special time of trouble such as never was, had not then commenced; for that does not take place till Michael stands up, according to Dan. xii, 1; but the expression here is, "When Michael stands up this trouble will be all over the earth;" showing that Michael had not then stood up, and that the trouble referred to was only some local and particular trouble. Again, "The reason why the four winds have not let go," &c. This again shows that the great time of trouble which is to be caused by the blowing of the winds had not then commenced. The word trouble is then used only in a secondary sense; and in that sense it was true, and still is true. The great outbreak in Europe in 1848 marked the commencement of that time designated as the "anger of the nations." Rev. xi, 18. Since then they have been growing more and more angry. Distress of nations with perplexity has been increasing on the earth; and darker forebodings press more heavily continually on the hearts of men, just as the Saviour said it should be, when giving the signs of his coming. Within the past 17 years every Adventist has re-iterated all these things more than a thousand times; and we ask, Are they true or false? Now shall we too grow angry because it happened to be so seen in vision, and give it all up, although it has thus far been a cardinal point of our faith?

Obj. 10. Perpetuation of Immortality. On this point the objector says, "She teaches, contrary to the Bible, on the subject of immortality, that even the endless life in the eternal state may cease and waste away." We reply, She teaches no such thing; and they who assert it, do, or might, know better. To what do they refer for proof of this? To what she says about Adam in the garden of Eden: "In order for man to possess an endless life, he must continue to eat of the tree of life. Deprived of that tree his life would gradually wear out." Gifts, Vol. iii, p. 64. But we would inform our astute reasoners that Adam on probation in the garden of Eden, and a redeemed saint in glory, are two things. This declaration has no reference to the eternal state. Their conclusion is 6000 years from their premises; and if this is a specimen of their discernment in opposing the visions, they had better entrust the job to other hands.

Obj. 11. Slavery. The objector consoles himself again with the thought that here is something more out of joint in the visions. He says: "Her visions on slavery in the United States have been proven false by recent facts." To which we reply that recent facts have proved no such thing. The only declaration that referred to slavery at the time it was written is this: "It looked to me like an impossibility now for slavery to be done away." This was shown in 1862, and published in Testimony No. 7, p. 19. It was spoken in reference to the South as their selfish love of slavery was set before her in vision, and the desperate measures they would adopt to cherish the institution, before they would give it up. To illustrate this case she was pointed back to Pharaoh and his dealings with the Israelites as they came out of Egypt. And as the scene passed before her and she saw the fiendish spirit of the slave-holders, and their unscrupulous determinations, she says it looked to her like an impossibility for slavery to be done away. Well now, could not slavery be done away without proving it false that it at that time appeared to her that such a thing was impossible? Is it on such shallow objections as this, that we are called upon to give up the visions? But it does not yet appear that slavery is really dead. Men of quite as much erudition and scope of discernment as any who are now engaged in a petty warfare against the visions, assert and re-iterate, from a personal knowledge of things in the South, that slavery is as much a fact there to-day, as it was for years ago; that it is abolished only in name. It is beginning to look even to some of these, like an impossibility, under the present state of things, for it to be done away.

But there is another testimony that is brought in in this connection. Ex. and Views, p. 18: "Then commenced the Jubilee when the land should rest. I saw the pious slave rise in triumph and victory, and shake off the chains that bound him, while his wicked master was in confusion, and knew not what to do; for the wicked could not understand the voice of God. Soon appeared the great white cloud," &c. But how, we would like to know, is this "proved to be false by the recent events in the United States?" It cannot be proved to be false till we have passed the time to which it applies; and when is that? It is right down at the end, at the voice of God, in close connection with the appearing of the Saviour. And, we inquire further, even if slavery in this country should be, for the time being, entirely demolished, as we trust and pray that it may be, that the poor bondmen may have an opportunity to learn the truth, would it not be possible for it to be revived again before the coming of the Lord? At that time the world will be sunk to an unparalleled degree in every species of wickedness; and can we suppose that the system of slavery, which so panders to all the grosser lusts of the depraved and carnal heart, will be unknown in the midst of that wickedness? Will men become so extremely virtuous on this point? It is not at all probable. If we understand this vision aright, and Rev. vi, 15 aright, there will be bondmen on the earth when the Lord appears.

Obj. 12. The Sabbath a test. "She teaches," says the objector, "that the Sabbath was not a test prior to 1844, which is contrary to the Bible." To this we reply that she teaches no such thing. What does she say? "I saw that the present test on the Sabbath could not come until the mediation of Jesus in the Holy Place was finished, and he had passed within the second vail; therefore Christians who fell asleep before the door was opened in the Most Holy when the midnight cry was finished at the seventh month, 1844, and had not kept the true Sabbath, now rest in hope; for they had not the light and the test on the Sabbath which we now have since that door was opened." Ex. and Views, p. 25. Then what is the test referred to?

Evidently the new light that came forth at that time upon the Sabbath question as connected with prophecy. But the objector by making the Sabbath a test in the same sense in which it is now a test, before the development of the light upon it, not only goes beyond the Bible, but offers no hope to those Christians who have died in the past without observing it. If he wishes to take upon himself that burden he is welcome to carry it. The Bible proportions a man's responsibility to the light he receives. And what is it that gives the Sabbath doctrine its vitality and aggressive power in the hands of S. D. Adventists, over what it possesses in the hands of S. D. Baptists? It is simply its connection with prophecy and the subject of the sanctuary. And before the truth on these subjects came out, the light that existed on the Sabbath question, even among those who were observing it, was scarcely a tithe of what it is now. Hence the Sabbath question has occupied a place before the world since that time, such as it did not, and could not, before. No S. D. Adventist can consistently deny this. And this is all that can be deduced from the teachings of the visions upon this point.

Obj. 13. The 144,000. "Her visions," we are told, "are contradictory in regard to the 144,000." The only trouble with this objection is, that like all those we have thus far examined, it is false. There is no truth in it. What is the objection made of? Just this. In Experience and Views, p. 11, she speaks of the living saints at the time the voice of God is heard, as being 144,000 in number. In Gifts Vol. i, p. 205, she says that those who have died in faith under the third angel's message, are raised at the voice of God. She does not say that those raised ones are numbered among the 144,000, as the objector assumes; but we will consider it so, in order to give the objection all the force that it can have. Then says the objector, the first statement that the 144,000 are the living saints, is contradicted by the second that it takes these resurrected ones to make up the number. Will the objector tell us when these persons are raised? Is it the voice of God pronouncing the day and hour of Jesus' coming, that brings them up, or do they come up before, and in season to hear it? This point is conclusively settled by the testimony in immediate connection. We read on the page last referred to: "There was a mighty earthquake. The graves were shaken open, and those who died in faith under the third angel's message, keeping the Sabbath, came forth from their dusty beds, glorified, to hear the covenant of peace that God was to make with those who had kept his law." What this covenant of peace is, is shown a few lines further on: "And as God spake the day and hour of Jesus' coming and delivered the everlasting covenant to his people," &c. Now what can be meant by the declaration that they came forth to hear the covenant of peace, &c., unless it is that they are raised before this covenant is proclaimed, or the voice of God announces the day and hour of Jesus' coming, and are raised in order to hear it. Then having been raised, and standing alive with the saints who have never died, are they not in all propriety reckoned among the living saints? And it is this very declaration of the day and hour of Jesus' coming that the company then alive, 144,000 in number, hear and understand. Ex. & V. pp. 10, 11. Then where is the contradiction? It does not exist.

But it is further objected that at the general resurrection of the righteous at the appearing of Christ, the 144,000 rejoice to meet their friends who had been torn from them by death. Ex. & V. p. 12. This is claimed as a contradiction. But is it not barely possible that some of the 144,000 had Christian friends taken away by death previous to the rise of the third angel's message? Such captious criticism is unworthy of notice.

It is objected again that this makes too many resurrections. We leave the objector to settle this with the Bible; for the prophet Daniel brings to view this very resurrection. Dan. xii, 2. To no other event can his testimony be applied.

(To be continued.)