Untitled article by Dudley Marvin Canright

The Seventh-day Adventist Publishing Association · Battle Creek, Mich. · Third-day, January 28, 1868

CONVERSATIONS ON IMPORTANT SUBJECTS. NO. 2.

By Dudley Marvin Canright

BY ELD. D. M. CANRIGHT.

Minister. Good morning brother. Now we will resume our conversation about the visions.

Bro. B. I am glad you have come. We were just saying, that it seems strange that a woman should have these visions instead of a man. I do not like the idea of being led by a woman! To see you ministers and everybody going to her to know what to do, looks foolish. I don't like it.

Bro. D. Yes, that has always troubled me. I don't believe in it at all. I do not think that it is a woman's place to teach me what I shall do.

Min. Brethren, wait a moment. You are getting excited about this matter.

Bro. B. Well if any such thing had ever occurred in the past it would seem different.

Min. Bro. B., the same thing has occurred in the past, as I will show you by reading Josh. iv, 4. “And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time. And she dwelt under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in Mount Ephraim; and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment.” Here was a woman who was a prophetess; but that is not all; she also judged the nation and they all “came up to her for judgment,” that is to learn what to do, and to have their cases decided. Is not this more than Sr. W. does?

Bro. B. Well, I declare, I did not remember that passage before. It does seem to meet the case pretty well.

Min. There are other cases of women who have been prophetesses. Miriam, the sister of Moses, was a prophetess, Ex. xv, 20. Another notable case is that of Huldah the prophetess, in the days of Josiah. “So Hilkiah, the priest, and Ahikam, and Achbor, and Shaphan, and Asahiah went unto Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikrah, the son of Harhas, keeping the wardrobe; (now she dwelt in Jerusalem in the college:) and they communed with her. And she said unto them, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Tell the man that sent you to me,” &c. 2 Kings xxii, 14, 15. Here we find the leading men of the nation coming to a woman for counsel from the Lord. We also read of a prophetess in Isa. viii, 3. Anna a prophetess, dwelt in Jerusalem when Jesus was born, and “she spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.” Luke ii, 36–38. Philip, the evangelist, “had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy.” Acts xxi, 8, 9.

From these passages you see that it is not so rare a thing for women to prophesy as you have thought it was.

Bro. D. But I can't believe in those visions any way. It seems ridiculous to me, this idea of having visions before we can know what to do.

Min. Then you do not believe in visions, Bro. D.?

Bro. D. No, I don't.

Sr. C. Nor do I, Bro. D. It looks silly to me.

Min. Allow me to read from the Bible. The book of Isaiah begins thus: “The vision of Isaiah the son of Amos, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.” Of course then you have no faith in the book of Isaiah as it is only a vision. Let us look at the prophecy of Ezekiel. “Now it came to pass in the thirteenth year, in the fourth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I was among the captives by the river of Chebar, that the heavens opened, and I saw visions of God.” Chap. i, 1. “And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel was there, according to the vision that I saw in the plain.” Chap. viii, 4. We must also throw away Ezekiel; for it is all merely a vision. The book of Daniel must go with it, for thus I read: “Then was the secret revealed unto Daniel in a night vision.” Chap. ii, 19. “Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heavens strove upon the great sea.” Chap. vii, 2. “In the third year of the reign of King Belshazzar a vision appeared unto me, even unto me Daniel, after that which appeared unto me at the first. And I saw in a vision,” &c. Chap. viii, 1, 2. So of Obadiah. “The vision of Obadiah.” Chap. i, 1. So I might read of nearly every prophet in the Bible; so that it is even said by the wise man, “Where there is no vision, the people perish.” Prov. xxix, 18. What about this Bro. D.?

Bro. D. Well,—I—I don't know exactly. I had forgotten that it read just so. But then this was in the Old Testament and was done away probably when Christ came.

Min. Here I think that your memory fails you again. Let us read some. Turn to Acts x, 1–3. “There was a certain man in Cæsarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, a devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God always. He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day, an angel of God coming in to him and saying unto him, Cornelius.” Also verses 9–17 relate how Peter saw a vision from Heaven concerning the gospel to the Gentiles. “Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean,” &c. Concerning Paul I read in Acts xvi, 9. “And a vision appeared to Paul in the night,” and he was instructed by it to go into Macedonia. Probably Paul is speaking of himself in 2 Cor. xii, 1–7, when he says, “It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.” Then he relates how a man was caught up to Heaven, &c. The last book in the New Testament was given wholly in vision to John on Patmos.

What shall we say to all this, Bro. D.?

Bro. D. I guess that I had better read my Bible a little more before I make many more objections. I see that I have not known much about this subject.

Min. That is a good conclusion. If you will carry that out, I have no fears but what you will come out a firm believer in the visions.

Sr. C. I do not believe that there were to be any such things after the death of the apostles. It was well enough then, but it is not needed now. Some people have a great deal of confidence in visions and dreams, and such like; but I am not so silly as that.

Min. Indeed, Sr. C., I fear that you are getting wise above what is written. Listen to the word of God a moment. “And he (the Lord) said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.” Num. xii, 6.

Sr. C. I think it not silly to believe the Lord though it be not according to worldly wisdom.

Bro. B. But is there any evidence that this will really be so in the last days?

Min. I think there is. Peter in Acts ii, quotes Joel ii, 28–32, and says that it applies to the last days. It reads thus: “And it shall come to pass afterward (in the last days, Acts ii, 17), that I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: and also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my Spirit.” The verse following speaks of the darkening of the sun and moon and of the coming of the great and terrible day of the Lord. Does not this show that God will reveal himself to his servants in the last days by visions, &c.?

Bro. B. I can not see what else it should mean. I am inclined to think that you are right.

Bro. D. I wish that we might have the gift of prophecy in the church now. It would help me much if I could be satisfied that it was really from God.

Min. Rev. xii, 17, has always been very interesting to me. “And the dragon [a wicked power through which Satan works] was wroth [angry] with the woman [the church] and went to make war with [that is to persecute] the remnant of her seed, [the remnant of any thing is the last end; hence the remnant of the church would be the last portion of it, or those who

live in the last days when Christ comes] which keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” There are two reasons given why the dragon persecutes the church. 1. Because they keep the commandments of God, all of them. This I consider a clear prophecy of the restoration of the Sabbath in the remnant church.

Bro. A. So do I. I don't see how it can be got around.

Bro. B. Yes. I always like to read that to our first-day Adventists.

Sr. C. So do I. They don't know what to say to it.

Min. I agree with you exactly brethren; but the next clause I love to read just as well: “which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” This is another characteristic of the remnant church.

Bro. D. What do you think this is?

Min. We will let John himself define it, then we shall get it just right. Rev. xix, 10: “And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he [the angel] said unto me, See thou do it not. I am thy fellow-servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

Bro. D. Well, that is plain, I declare.

Min. Then the remnant church will be peculiar for two things: 1, for keeping all the commandments of God; and 2, for having the spirit of prophecy. Wherever you find the church of God in the last days, you will find them having these two peculiarities. Is not that so?

Bro. D. It must be so, it seems to me.

Min. Do you believe that we are in the last days?

Bro. D. I do.

Min. Do you believe that God has a true church to-day?

Bro. D. I do.

Min. Can you find a church that is making a reformation on the commandments,—trying to keep them all?

Bro. D. I think I can.

Min. If this church that you mention then is the true remnant church of God, should it not also have the other characteristic, viz., the spirit of prophecy? No dodging now!

Bro. D. Well, I confess that it does look so. I don't know but it may be so after all.

Min. Once more: in this church which you think is the true church, is there any thing which claims to be the spirit of prophecy?

Bro. D. There is.

Min. How long has it been there?

Bro. D. From the first start of the work, I believe.

Min. Has it had any prominent part in the message?

Bro. D. Oh! yes, it has occupied a very prominent place in the work. In fact this is the greatest objection that is brought against Sr. White's testimonies. If they were not held up and made so important, no one would care particularly.

Min. Exactly so, Bro. D. If we attached no importance to the gift, Satan would not care; for it would do his cause no hurt. But I wish to call your attention to another point: You believe that the Sabbath and the third angel's message are from God; and that the Review, tracts, &c., should be published to sanction it, do you not?

Bro. D. Certainly, I never doubted that at all.

Bro. B. We all believe that, but—

Min. Wait then and hear me through. Then, believing this, is it reasonable to suppose that the work is of God, but that the agents and persons who have done the most of the work are all of the Devil?

Bro. D. No, we don't think so.

Min. But you do take that position when you reject Sr. White's Testimonies; for you know that from the beginning of the message, Bro. and Sr. White have held and acted the most important part in it of all who have advanced it. The Testimonies in particular, have had a controlling influence over this work, as you acknowledge. Now if Sr. White and her testimonies are not from God, they are from the other source,—Satan; and you occupy the very absurd position of supposing that for 20 years the Devil has been carrying on the Lord's work!! Now, brethren, the only consistent positions to take on this subject are either to endorse the whole work, Testimonies and all, or throw it all away.

Bro. D. Well, I declare that seems like pretty strong meat; but I do not know but what you are about right after all.

Bro. E. I can not agree with you. I have read Sr. White's writings and think there are good things in them. I think Sr. White herself is a good woman. But I cannot believe that she is inspired by God and that her writings are equal to the Bible. I place them with other good books, such as the “Interior Life,” “Wesley's Sermons,” and the like.

Min. Bro. E. there is no consistency at all in your position. Her books are either much better than “any other good book,” as you call them, or else they are very bad books. Now look at it. These other good books which you mention are simply the opinions of good men. There may be many good things in them, and there may be things that are wrong. They may make mistakes. They do not come to us with authority. Not so with Sr. White's writings. She claims, she repeatedly affirms, that the Lord shows her those things in vision; that it is not her opinion, but the word of God. Now this is either true or false. If true, then it follows that her testimonies are the word of God, and hence of more authority than simply “a good book” containing the opinions of men. If false, then she is a liar, a deceiver, a hypocrite, a child of the Devil, and she must know it; and hence her books cannot be good in any sense, but a means of deception. She is either a servant of God or of Satan. There is no half way work about this.

Bro. E. But she may be honest and think that she sees this when she does not. She may have a diseased imagination.

Bro. D. I am satisfied that it is no use to reason that way, Bro. E. I tried to think so too, but it is no use, it is very inconsistent. If she had only had one vision, it might be so; but when we remember that she has had some of them covering a period of more than 20 years, that she has had personal testimonies for thousands, and that she says always that the angel of the Lord showed her this, that, and the other thing which she writes, it leaves not a chance to suppose that she may be deceived herself about it. It is either just as she says, or else she makes it all up and knows that she is deceiving all the time. The more closely I examine it, the more I am inclined to believe the visions.

Min. Well, brethren, I must rest awhile, and then we will discuss this subject again.