Discussion in Clarksville, N.Y by John Norton Loughborough

Publishing Committee · Battle Creek, Mich. · Feb 28, 1856

Discussion in Clarksville, N.Y

By John Norton Loughborough

From Bro. Loughborough.

Discussion in Clarksville, N. Y.

BRO. SMITH:—I improve a few moments this morning to inform you of my journeyings for a few weeks past. After the Conference in Oswego, we went to Roosevelt; met with the church there Dec. 21st to 23d. The Lord wrought for us, and although we found the church in sore trial, we had the privilege of enjoying some precious seasons of prayer and conference with them before we left the place.

Dec. 28th to 30th we spent at Loraine. Quite a tedious storm came on so that but few could get together, yet those who met seemed to feel the importance of taking hold of the work of God anew.

Jan. 1st, returned to Oswego and enjoyed a sweet season of prayer and conference with the church there.

Jan. 5th to 8th, spoke in new places in Van Buren. Some interest seemed to be manifested in the word spoken.

Jan. 13th and 14th held meetings in Manlius. Although it was stormy and unfavorable for meetings, our congregations were good, and seemed to give some heed to the word of truth.

Jan. 20th, commenced a discussion in Clarksville, Madison Co., with one Eld. Alanson White, a minister of the Methodist Episcopal Church, on the question, "Does Philosophy and Scripture teach that man has not an immaterial, immortal soul." We each occupied seven evenings, talking from one to two hours each evening. I considered it an opportunity to do good to hold the above discussion, for two reasons: 1st, Quite a portion of the people in the place, and in the country around, were Seventh-day Baptists; and this very question of the non-immortality of the soul, seemed to be quite a barrier between them and our views of Prophecy. 2d. It seemed, on trial that no house in the place could be obtained, in which to give lectures on our faith before the people; but the discussion they would admit into their houses; and we considered that by hearing this discussion, men could have a chance to decide for themselves on this point, and perhaps become interested to hear upon other subjects. We were not disappointed in this, as the sequel will show.

When the discussion commenced, it devolved upon me to lead out. I said but little on Philosophy, but passed immediately to the investigation of the Scriptures, choosing rather to find what the Scriptures taught, and then show that the Philosophy of man taught the same.

Eld. W., instead of answering my scripture argument, proceeded three evenings with a long argument from Philosophy, to show that man's mind was not matter. I answered his arguments as briefly as possible,

and proceeded to read the plain teaching of the Scriptures each evening.

The most of the people were not interested in the philosophical reasoning, and began to decide in favor of the Scripture testimony that had been presented. Eld. W.'s friends urged him up to come to the Bible, but before he concluded to do it, we had our position laid down by which all his objections might be answered. When he introduced his testimony from which he inferred the immortality of the soul, we endeavored to candidly compare them with the plain teachings of the word of the Lord. The Lord gave us liberty in striving to vindicate the doctrine of immortality alone through Christ.

When the plain testimony of the word of God began to take effect in convincing the minds of the people, there was much uneasiness among those who, "having ears hear not," as will be seen by their endeavors to end the discussion.

When I made arrangements to hold the discussion I allowed nine days to attend to it, supposing that that would be sufficient time to investigate it. I stated to Eld. W., about the time I thought I should have to leave the place. But I found he had a disposition to drag the matter and I made arrangements to stay fourteen days longer. When I had spoken four evenings and W. three, he proposed to put it over one evening to which I consented. When we had each spoken again he wanted another evening, which consumed more than the time first allotted for the discussion. I then told the congregation that I had arranged to tarry till the subject was through with. It was understood by friends how much time I had remained, and I suppose he learned the number of days. When I made the above statement, Eld. W. seemed confused.

After we had each occupied another evening, Eld. P., the stationed minister of the church, arose, and gave out appointments for five evenings in succession.

One of these appointments was for a prayer-meeting in the meeting-house, whereas prior to this, they had been held in a private house. This announcement was made Saturday evening. Eld. P. claimed also, that he should reserve the next evening (Sunday evening;) because before this discussion he had been in the habit of holding meetings in the meeting-house Sunday evening. He had already given up two of them for the discussion. (But as it happens one of the Sunday evenings the discussion passed over at Eld. W.'s request.) He said the church did not like to have their regular meetings set aside. This according to my arrangements was leaving me but one more evening to finish up what I had to say; and Eld. W. had as yet but just fairly entered upon the Bible. The congregation began to whisper among themselves that this was a contrived plan, and that Eld. W. was trying to get an honorable back-out. Some may think it strange, but that is the way it looked to me.

After these six appointments had been announced, Eld. W. arose and said perhaps he and myself could arrange it between us so as to go on with the discussion after the six evenings, or else finish up in the two remaining to us. I went to him after meeting and told him if we could have the house the week after Eld. P.'s announced appointments were filled, I would take up one of my appointments, and spend those five evenings in Winfield, an adjoining town, where the people wished to hear, and return the following week to complete the discussion. Eld. P. said that would suit him. Eld. W. looked confused but finally agreed that I should speak the next Monday night, in Tuesday night, and the next week Monday night, I should speak again, and so we would go on with the discussion.

Accordingly on Monday night I went and reviewed the arguments of Eld. W., presented Saturday night. After I had finished my remarks Eld. P. arose and said, He was sent to that place by the Oneida Conference to labor for the good of souls. We (said he) have been contemplating some time holding a protracted meeting. We shall commence it next Monday night. I (said he) shall try to win souls to God. I shall reserve the use of this house next week fearless of man, flesh or the Devil. So I was thrown out of the discussion with no chance of summing up, and with no warning whatever. But this was not the end of the investigation of the subject; for quite a number furnished themselves with the "Examination of Scripture Testimony."

We went to Winfield and spent the Sabbath with the brethren and sisters there. Here we were glad to learn that there was some little fruit of the tent meeting. We thought of speaking in the evening of First-day in the Baptist Church, but the Methodist minister did not dare to take the responsibility to give out an appointment, so a kind brother notified a few who assembled at his house. They gave good heed to the truth. Our own soul was refreshed in

speaking to them. In striving to water others we felt that the Lord watered us.

Monday returned to Bro. Main's, near Clarksville. Spent the afternoon at Babcock's Mills, where we had thought of holding a meeting in the evening; but the way did not seem to open. We thought, therefore, we would return by way of Clarksville and attend the announced protracted meeting. Accordingly we drove to the village and made some inquiries. No appointment had been given out for a protracted meeting! We went to Eld. P., who first made the appointment, and he told us plainly that there was to be no protracted meeting. The way he explained the difficulty was that they had not entirely given up having one, but should probably have one by and by. We returned to Bro. M.'s convinced that the so-called protracted meeting was merely an excuse to get out of the discussion. We believe the "wrath of man will praise the Lord;" for it is fully manifest in this already.

Your brother in hope of life.

J. N. LOUGHBOROUGH.

Brookfield, N. Y., Feb. 13th, 1856.