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The King of the North and 'The Daily' in SDA History

Which power did the SDA pioneers identify as the King of the North?

AdventAI

What power was identified as the King of the North by the SDA church in the late 1800s and early 1900s?

AdventAI

The Turkish power, centered at Constantinople, was identified as the king of the north by the Seventh-day Adventist church during that period.

🏛️ Identification of the King of the North

The identification of this power is based on the geographical territory it occupies, as the titles "king of the north" and "king of the south" are determined by the divisions of Alexander the Great's empire. The angel in Daniel 11 outlines the history of these territories from the time of the four-way division of Alexander's dominion until the end of time Daniel 11:4.

  • Historical Foundation: The original king of the north was Lysimachus, who held the territory of Thrace and Bithynia.

  • Geographical Rule: Whatever power occupies the northern territory originally held by Lysimachus at the time of the end is the king of the north.

  • The Ottoman Empire: Since the Turks have ruled the territory of which Constantinople is the center since 1453 A.D., they currently fulfill the role of the king of the north.

⚔️ Historical Fulfillment and Prophecy

Various events in history have confirmed this application of prophecy in the view of the church.

  • The Crimean War: The conflict where Russia troubled the Ottoman Empire from the north and east is seen as a fulfillment of tidings from the north and east troubling the king of the north Daniel 11:44.

  • The Time of the End: Starting in 1798, the king of the south (Egypt) and the king of the north (Turkey) were expected to engage in conflict with the French power under Napoleon Daniel 11:40.

  • Victory of the North: Turkey, with the help of allies like Great Britain, gained the victory in these conflicts, which is described as the king of the north overflowing and passing over.

📉 The End of the Turkish Power

The prophecy indicates that this power is destined to reach a specific end.

  • Coming to His End: The king of the north will eventually plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain, yet he shall come to his end with no one to help him Daniel 11:45.

  • A Signal for Michael: The final fall of Turkey is understood to be the signal for Michael to stand up, marking the beginning of the time of trouble and the everlasting reign of Christ Daniel 12:1.

  • The Sick Man of the East: The Ottoman Empire has been viewed as "the sick man" whose shrinking territory and eventual collapse are closely watched by students of prophecy.

🛡️ Spiritual Lessons

The study of these prophecies is intended to provide comfort and guidance for the people of God.

  • Faithfulness to Truth: Believers are encouraged to remain true to the "present truth" and not be carried away by errors.

  • Confidence in God: Just as God gave victory to Israel over Jabin, the king of Hazor, in the north, He will deliver His people in the final time of trouble Joshua 11:6.

  • God's Sovereignty: Ultimately, the Lord is the one who controls the elements and the nations, stretching out the north over the empty place and hanging the earth upon nothing Job 26:7.

Sources · 21
  1. EQ 11.1The Eastern QuestionAlonzo Trevier Jones
  2. BEST June 8, 1896, page 171.10The Bible Echo, vol. 11Alonzo Trevier Jones
  3. MON 30.2The Marshaling of the NationsAlonzo Trevier Jones
  4. DAR1909 249.3Daniel and The RevelationUriah Smith
  5. ARSH May 31, 1898, page 349.1The Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, vol. 75Alonzo Trevier Jones
  6. DAR1909 302.3Daniel and The RevelationUriah Smith
  7. ARSH October 2, 1900, page 632.11The Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, vol. 77Alonzo Trevier Jones
  8. PTUK April 1, 1897, page 195.4The Present Truth, vol. 13Ellet Joseph Waggoner
  9. SDP 245.3The Story of Daniel the ProphetStephen Nelson Haskell
  10. MWV2 104.2Miller’s Works, vol. 2. Evidence from Scripture and History of the Second Coming of Christ about the YearWilliam Miller
  11. DAR1909 305.3Daniel and The RevelationUriah Smith
  12. GNT 98.1The Great Nations of To-dayAlonzo Trevier Jones
  13. SYNPT 251.2Synopsis of the Present TruthUriah Smith
  14. WIEX 5.1Without ExcuseUriah Smith
  15. PTUK January 12, 1899, page 24.2The Present Truth, vol. 15Ellet Joseph Waggoner
  16. DAR1909 247Daniel and The RevelationUriah Smith
  17. DAR 10.9Daniel and The RevelationUriah Smith
  18. RCASDA 112.2Replies to Elder Canright’s Attacks on Seventh-day AdventistsUriah Smith
  19. BHOTV3 72.2Bible History Old Testament Vol. 3Alfred Edersheim
  20. BHOTV3 106.2Bible History Old Testament Vol. 3Alfred Edersheim
  21. GOSC 64.3The Gospel in CreationEllet Joseph Waggoner

Why do most now teach that the KON is the Papacy?

AdventAI

The shift toward identifying the King of the North as the Papacy is often presented as a logical development of prophetic interpretation, though it was a point of significant internal debate during the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

🧩 The Logical Development of Prophetic Interpretation

The identification of the Papacy as the King of the North is viewed by many as the natural outcome of consistent biblical study regarding the "present truth".

  • Foundation of Systematic Truth: Proponents of this view argue that the "present truth" does not lead into error but evolves through deeper renunciation of worldly traditions.

  • Consistency with Other Prophecies: Just as the Papacy is identified as the power that seeks to change times and laws and acts as the "man of sin," it is seen as the primary antagonist in the final scenes of the great controversy.

  • Unity and Integrity: It is argued that a union of men in sacred work must bear the stamp of unswerving integrity, and identifying the Papacy as the King of the North aligns with the broader SDA identification of the first beast of Revelation 13.

⚔️ The Context of the Conflict: The "New View" vs. the "Old View"

During the early 1900s, a heated controversy arose within the Seventh-day Adventist leadership regarding this very topic.

  • Prominent Advocates: Leaders such as W. W. Prescott and A. G. Daniells began to espouse what was called the "new view," which focused on the Papacy's role in the "daily" of Daniel 8:13 and the later chapters of Daniel Daniel 8:13.

  • Opposition to the Traditional View: They moved away from the "old view" championed by Uriah Smith in his book Thoughts on Daniel and the Revelation, which had specifically identified the King of the North as the Turkish Ottoman Empire.

  • Distraction from Mission: This debate became so intense that Ellen White expressed concern that the controversy was causing evangelism, particularly in cities, to be seriously neglected.

⚠️ Warnings Against Following Worldly Policies

The transition in teaching also reflects a broader concern about the influence of worldly education and the danger of forming "confederacies" that do not follow the Spirit of God.

  • Worldly Influence: There was a constant warning not to follow the routine of worldly schools or the educational policies of those who do not discern the voice of God.

  • Spiritual Discernment: Spiritual things must be spiritually discerned, and when a high state of spirituality does not exist, errors in management and teaching can creep into the church's institutions.

  • The Power of Rome: Warnings were given that the church should not act out the "principles of Rome" by seeking to bring everything under centralized human control, which some saw as a spiritual parallel to the Papacy's own methods.

📖 Biblical Assurance and the Final Crisis

Regardless of the specific identification, the church is taught that the final crisis is near and requires a firm foundation in the Bible only.

  • The Bible as Guide: The Bible, and the Bible only, is to be the guide for all doctrines and reforms.

  • A Message of Warning: The purpose of understanding these prophecies is to give the message of warning that God sends regarding the dangers of the present and the future.

  • The Final Outcome: Ultimately, those who conscientiously keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus will receive the seal of God, standing ready for the day when the Son of Man appears in the clouds of heaven Revelation 14:12.

Sources · 17
  1. 10MR 49.1Manuscript Releases, vol. 10 [Nos. 771-850]Ellen Gould White
  2. RCASDA 112.2Replies to Elder Canright’s Attacks on Seventh-day AdventistsUriah Smith
  3. RCASDA 201.1Replies to Elder Canright’s Attacks on Seventh-day AdventistsUriah Smith
  4. ST August 2, 1883, par. 2The Signs of the TimesEllen Gould White
  5. 4MR 67.3Manuscript Releases, vol. 4 [Nos. 210-259]Ellen Gould White
  6. PM 142.2The Publishing MinistryEllen Gould White
  7. SITI December 22, 1881, page 571.7The Signs of the Times, vol. 7Ellet Joseph Waggoner
  8. PH061 28.2Progress of Work at Loma LindaEllen Gould White
  9. CT 56.1Counsels to Parents, Teachers, and StudentsEllen Gould White
  10. 9MR 167.3Manuscript Releases, vol. 9 [Nos. 664-770]Ellen Gould White
  11. 16MR 137.1Manuscript Releases, vol. 16 [Nos. 1186-1235]Ellen Gould White
  12. PH149 16.1Selections from Testimonies to the Managers and Workers in our InstitutionsEllen Gould White
  13. 8MR 341.3Manuscript Releases, vol. 8 [Nos. 526-663]Ellen Gould White
  14. 4MR 110.4Manuscript Releases, vol. 4 [Nos. 210-259]Ellen Gould White
  15. FBS 113.3The Fannie Bolton StoryEllen Gould White
  16. PM 31.1The Publishing MinistryEllen Gould White
  17. LDE 220.1Last Day EventsEllen Gould White

Ellen White endorsed the 1897 edition of Uriah Smith's book Daniel and the Revelation. She also spoke positively of what he was preaching on The Eastern Question at camp meetings. Can we then understand that what Uriah Smith was teaching i.e. that Turkey was/is the KON, is in fact the truth?

AdventAI

The identification of the king of the north as the Turkish power is the definitive and correct application of this prophecy. The geographical boundaries established at the beginning of the divided Grecian empire must determine the names of these territories forever afterward, or there would be no standard by which to test the fulfillment of the word of God.

The Geographical Foundation of the Truth

The titles of the kings are derived from their location in relation to Palestine, the native land of the prophet Daniel.

  • The King of the North: Originally, this was the division of Alexander's empire lying north of Palestine, which was Thrace and the countries on the Hellespont and Bosphorus.

  • The Principle of Succession: Whatever power occupies the territory which at first constituted the kingdom of the north is, so long as it occupies that territory, the king of the north.

  • The Identity of the Turk: For several centuries, the territory of the original northern division has been included within the dominions of the sultan of Turkey. Therefore, Turkey is the power to which we must look for the fulfillment of the closing verses of Daniel 11.

Historical Confirmations

The events of history have demonstrated the accuracy of this application with such precision that it leaves no room for doubt.

  • The Year 1798: In the same year that the king of the south (Egypt) "pushed" at Napoleon, the king of the north (Turkey) came against him like a whirlwind.

  • The Whirlwind Onset: This description was met when the sultan of Turkey declared war against France in September 1798, followed by a campaign in which Turkish forces, aided by "many ships" from England and Russia, repulsed the French at St. Jean d’Acre.

  • The Crimean War: The "tidings out of the east and out of the north" that troubled the king of the north were fulfilled when Persia and Russia instigated the conflict that led to the Crimean War of 1853-1856 Daniel 11:44. Turkey went forth with "great fury," fighting with remarkable impetuosity as described in the prophecy.

The Final Step in Prophecy

The entire prophecy of Daniel 11 has been wrought out into history step by step, with only the final verse remaining to be fulfilled.

  • The Last Move: The prophecy declares that the king of the north will plant his palace tabernacles in the glorious holy mountain, Jerusalem, which is currently a Turkish province Daniel 11:45.

  • The Signal for Michael: The retirement of the Turk from Europe and his final stand at Jerusalem is the specific signal for Michael to stand up and for the close of human probation Daniel 12:1.

  • Total Dissolution: The "drying up" of the symbolic river Euphrates represents the consumption and utter end of the Ottoman power, which prepares the way for the kings of the East and the battle of the great day of God Almighty.

The Certainty of the Word

The facts regarding the shrinkage of Turkish territory and its "shriveling up" over the last century provide a manifest destiny visible to all who study these movements. These political revolutions are the last to be accomplished before the earth plunges into its final time of trouble. We can behold with thrilling interest that the nations are marshaling their forces in the very movements described by the royal seer twenty-five hundred years ago. We have also a more sure word of prophecy; to which you do well that you take heed, as to a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts 2 Peter 1:19.

Sources · 9
  1. DAR1909 304.2Daniel and The RevelationUriah Smith
  2. DAR1909 309.6Daniel and The RevelationUriah Smith
  3. DAR1909 249.2Daniel and The RevelationUriah Smith
  4. DAR1909 302.3Daniel and The RevelationUriah Smith
  5. DAR1909 319.2Daniel and The RevelationUriah Smith
  6. DAR1909 322.2Daniel and The RevelationUriah Smith
  7. DAR1909 692.2Daniel and The RevelationUriah Smith
  8. DAR1909 315.2Daniel and The RevelationUriah Smith
  9. DAR1909 6.1Daniel and The RevelationUriah Smith

You have not answered my question regarding what Ellen G. White endorsed.

AdventAI

I apologize for not addressing the specific endorsement by Ellen G. White in my previous response.

Ellen White did indeed provide strong support for Uriah Smith's work and the historical positions held by the pioneers regarding prophecy. While she did not explicitly write a "commentary" confirming every geographical detail of the King of the North, her actions and statements during that era offer significant context.

📚 Endorsement of Uriah Smith's Work

Ellen White viewed the book Thoughts on Daniel and the Revelation as a work of great importance for the Seventh-day Adventist church.

  • A Fruitful Work: She referred to Uriah Smith's book as a "fruitful book" that had been used by God to bring many to the knowledge of the truth.
  • Historical Review: She was instructed that the early experiences and the light God gave the pioneers from the beginning of the work should be republished and kept before the people.
  • Warning Against Changes: When some leaders, like W.W. Prescott and A.G. Daniells, proposed significant revisions to Smith's book due to the "new view" regarding the "daily" and other prophetic interpretations, she expressed distress over the divisive controversy it created.

⛺ Support at Camp Meetings

Regarding the "Eastern Question"—which specifically identified Turkey as the King of the North—Ellen White's support was visible in her public association with the preaching of that message.

  • Maternal Regard: She had a deep, long-standing friendship with Uriah Smith, treating him with kindness and regarding him as a faithful laborer in the cause.
  • Unified Message: During the late 1800s, when the "Eastern Question" was a central theme of Adventist camp meetings, she often spoke on the same platforms, lending her influence to the meetings where these prophetic applications were being taught.
  • The Power of the Message: She noted that during the early years, the preaching of the truth was accompanied by wonderful manifestations of the power of God, and the position was taken that the Bible was to be the only guide.

⚠️ The Context of the "Daily" Controversy

It is important to note that the primary theological conflict Ellen White addressed was not a point-by-point debate on the King of the North, but rather the "new view" of the "daily" in Daniel 8.

  • Avoid Contention: She urged that the "daily" should not be made a "test question" and that the heated discussions were "not of the Lord" because they hindered the work of reaching the cities.
  • Preserving the Old Landmarks: She emphasized that the way God had led the pioneers should not be discarded for new theories that brought about discord.

🛡️ Conclusion on the Identity of the King of the North

In the Adventist understanding of that time, the identification of Turkey as the King of the North was considered part of the "sure word of prophecy" 2 Peter 1:19.

  • The Pioneer Position: Uriah Smith and other pioneers such as James White, Stephen Haskell, and Alonzo T. Jones were unified in identifying the King of the North as the power occupying the territory of the original northern division of Alexander's empire—the Turkish Power.
  • Prophetic Sequence: This application led directly to the conclusion that when the King of the North (Turkey) comes to his end at Jerusalem, Michael will stand up to deliver His people Daniel 11:45.

While Ellen White's primary focus was on the spiritual preparation of the people, she stood firmly by the pioneers and the books that laid out these prophetic foundations, warning that we are never to depart from the position that the Bible is our only guide. 🌟

Sources · 10
  1. 10MR 49.1Manuscript Releases, vol. 10 [Nos. 771-850]Ellen Gould White
  2. PM 31.1The Publishing MinistryEllen Gould White
  3. RCASDA 201.1Replies to Elder Canright’s Attacks on Seventh-day AdventistsUriah Smith
  4. DAR1909 247Daniel and The RevelationUriah Smith
  5. DAR 10.9Daniel and The RevelationUriah Smith
  6. 8MR 341.3Manuscript Releases, vol. 8 [Nos. 526-663]Ellen Gould White
  7. EQ 11.1The Eastern QuestionAlonzo Trevier Jones
  8. ARSH October 2, 1900, page 632.11The Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, vol. 77Alonzo Trevier Jones
  9. SDP 245.3The Story of Daniel the ProphetStephen Nelson Haskell
  10. DAR1909 302.3Daniel and The RevelationUriah Smith

Thank you. Seeing as you have brought up the subject of "the daily", what was the view of this subject that the majority of the SDA pioneers held and that EGW said was the true view?

AdventAI

The majority of the SDA pioneers held the view that "the daily" in Daniel 8 referred to paganism, and while Ellen White did not settle the technical definition in her writings, she explicitly affirmed that the position held by the pioneers during the 1844 movement was given under the direction of the Holy Spirit.

📜 The Pioneer View of "The Daily"

The early workers, including William Miller and his associates, identified "the daily" (the tamid) not as the ministration of Christ, but as the "daily sacrifice abomination," which they understood to be paganism in its various forms.

  • Pagan Rome: They believed the "daily" represented the pagan Roman Empire, which had to be "taken away" to make room for the "abomination that maketh desolate," which they identified as the Papacy.

  • Chronological Milestones: Based on this understanding, they calculated that paganism ceased to be the dominant legal power in the Roman Empire in 508 A.D., which provided the starting point for the 1290 and 1335 days of Daniel 12.

  • United Testimony: This interpretation was a cornerstone of the message proclaimed by William Miller, Joseph Bates, and other pioneers during the great Advent awakening.

🛡️ Ellen White’s Endorsement of Pioneer Experience

While a "new view" later emerged identifying "the daily" as Christ’s high priestly ministry, Ellen White emphasized the importance of the original light given to the pioneers.

  • Divine Guidance: She stated that God directed the mind of William Miller to the prophecies and gave him great light upon the book of Revelation and the prophetic periods.

  • The Correct View of 1844: Regarding the "daily" specifically, she wrote that the Lord gave her a vision showing that the view of "the daily" that the brethren held at that time (the paganism view) was the correct one as it related to the 2300 days and the sanctuary.

  • Republishing the Record: She instructed that the experiences of the pioneers, including the specific way the Lord wrought through men like Miller and Bates, must be republished to withstand the deceptions of Satan.

⚠️ Warning Against Making it a Test Question

Despite the historical weight of the pioneer view, Ellen White was instructed to warn the church against the fierce agitation that arose over this subject in later years.

  • Not a Test: She stated that the true meaning of "the daily" is not to be made a "test question" and that it is not a subject of vital importance compared to the third angel's message.

  • Enemy's Diversion: She noted that the enemy was served by the disagreement and agitation, as it diverted minds from the pressing work of reaching the cities and preparing a people for Christ's coming.

  • Preserving Unity: She advised brethren to refrain from presenting conflicting views that would lead to "worse issues" and confusion among the people.

💎 The Spiritual Standard

The ultimate purpose of these prophecies is to lead the soul to a daily surrender to Christ and a separation from the spirit of the world. We are to respect the aged pioneers who bore the burden of the work when it was hard, as they are God's workmen who built up the foundation of the faith. In this time of character building, we must hide in Jesus, for He is our only hope and a present help in time of trouble. I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily 1 Corinthians 15:31.

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