p. 1 | IS THE SOUL IMMORTAL? by John Norton Loughborough

Publishing Committee · Rochester, N. Y. · Oct 16, 1855

IS THE SOUL IMMORTAL?

By John Norton Loughborough

An Examination of the Scripture Testimony Concerning Man's Present Condition and his Future Reward or Punishment.

By J. N. LOUGHBOROUGH.

[Continued.]

g. It is claimed that the dead are represented as "flying away;" therefore there must be some principle aside from the body, that exists in death. Ps. xc, 10. "The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labor and sorrow; for it is soon cut off and we fly away." The objector is ready to ask, Where do they fly to? We know of no testimony that says they fly to heaven, or to a place of punishment. Solomon in Eccl. ix, 3, we think, sets this subject in a clear light. "The heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead."

h. It is claimed that the dead must be in a conscious state, for according to the testimony of Peter, Christ went and preached to the spirits of the dead the three days his body lay in the tomb. We know this is the sentiment taught in the gospel of Nicodemus; but we have ever considered that as doubtful authority; and have suspicions that it favors too much the doctrine of Papal purgatory to come from any other source than that of artful priests. We will look at Peter's testimony candidly and see if any such sentiment is to be learned there.

1 Pet. iii, 18. "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit, by which (Spirit) he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water." The last verse above quoted explains how it was that Christ preached to the spirits, that were then in prison. It does not state that he went while dead, or that his soul went. It would seem from the reading of the testimony that the preaching was done in the days of Noah. Christ preached by his Spirit through Noah to the antediluvians. The testimony declares that Christ was raised by the Spirit (Spirit of God) by which he went and preached when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah. Says the objector, "He preached to spirits*." We suppose those spirits were men; and not that the men in the days of Noah were disembodied ghosts.

The word which in the above text is rendered spirit, (as translators inform us,) is sometimes rendered person; and they quote the above text as one instance where it may be thus rendered. Milton says of the "spirits in prison," "literally, in guard, or as the Syriac version renders it, in sepulchres, in the grave." The grave is without doubt referred to by the word prison, in the above text. The Lord says [Isa. xiii, 7] that Christ shall be given for a light to the Gentiles, "to open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison-house."

In chapter xlix, 8, 9, he says, "I will give thee for a covenant to the people that thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth; to them that are in darkness, Shew yourselves." This testimony also agrees with that of Christ. Jno. v, 28. "The hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth." The promise that Christ should be sent [Isa. lxi] was that he should "proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound." Zechariah speaking of the work to be performed by Christ says, [Chap. ix, 11.] "As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water." We might quote many texts similar to these showing that the grave is called in Scripture, a prison.

i. It is claimed that Paul must have believed in the existence of spirits when he gave his judgment concerning those who committed fornication. 1 Cor. v. 5. "To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." If the testimony read, "that the spirit may be saved" when they die, there might be some plausibility in claiming that the spirit in this text referred to something aside from the body. But the testimony is "That the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." The day of the Lord Jesus we understand to be the day of the Lord, spoken of in the Old Testament; and by the testimony there given concerning it, we find that it is introduced by the second coming of Christ. Isaiah says, speaking of the day of the Lord, [Chap. xiii, 9.] "Behold the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate; and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it." The day of the Lord, according to this text, is when the Lord executes wrath on the inhabitants of the earth, which according to Rev. xiv, 11, is not until Christ ceases to mediate for men, clothes himself with garments of vengeance and comes to reap the harvest of the earth.

Paul's testimony refers to a salvation that is to take place in the day of the Lord's anger. There, as it is admitted, the resurrection of the body takes place. So the salvation here spoken of cannot be the salvation of disembodied spirits, but of the persons who had been delivered unto Satan. The word that is rendered spirit in the text under consideration is the same as is thus rendered in 1 Pet. iii, 19, which as we have already stated translators tell us sometimes signifies person. This text is one instance where they tell us it has this meaning. See Bible vs. Trad., pp. 106, 107.

j. From the testimony in Rev. xxii, 8, 9, it is argued that the prophets of old must be in a conscious state. "When I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellow-servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book; worship God." On the above text, it is claimed that one of the prophets was conversing with John. If we supposed the text had that meaning, there would be no necessity of claiming it as proof of the existence of the souls of the prophets after death. The angel did not say, I am the soul of one of the prophets. Two prophets at least, Enoch and Elijah, ascended bodily into heaven; so if the text conveyed the idea that the angel was one of the prophets, it might be either of those.

But we do not understand from the testimony, that it was a prophet that was conversing with John. John testifies that it was "the angel which shewed me these things. In verses 5, 6, of this chapter, we read, "And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light; and they shall reign forever and ever. And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true. And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done." The proof that Christ here offers, of the truth of these testimonies concerning the kingdom, is that God by his angel has borne witness to them, through the prophets. In verse 16, he states, "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches."

It seems from the above testimonies that God and Christ each had an angel, that had as their appointed work the bearing of messages to those to whom God would reveal them. There is no testimony in scripture that the dead had any such work to

perform, but of the angels (who according to Heb. ii, 5, 9, 16, are of a higher order of beings than men) God says, [Heb. i, 14.] "Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for those who shall be heirs of salvation?"

In Rev. xix, 10, John says of this angel, "And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellow-servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: (of those who are sent to minister for those who shall be heirs of salvation,) worship God; for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." That is, the testimony of Jesus came by the same spirit by which holy men of God were moved. Worship God; for this is his revelation. See Chap. i, 1. "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John."

The angel says, Do not worship me: "I am thy fellow-servant." I am a servant of Jesus in bearing this testimony to you, as you also will be in bearing it to the people. We are fellow-servants, am I no more an object of worship than you are. John it seems thought this angel an object worthy of his adoration: the angel corrects that impression by giving him to understand that he is a fellow-servant, bearing a part in the same work in which John was engaged.

But, say you, this angel told John "I am of thy brethren." He must therefore have been a man. As we have already shown, the testimony of the text is that he was an angel; there is no necessity of claiming that he is a man, simply because he said he was of John's brethren, for Paul by his testimony [Eph. iii, 14, 15.] makes the angels and saints one brotherhood. Speaking of Christ, he says, "Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named." We would say in conclusion of our remarks on the text before us, allowing the testimony of the word, there is no proof in these texts concerning the existence of man in death. Their testimony is speaking of the work of an angel.

k. It is argued that John taught that men exist in death, by his testimony, [Rev. xiv, 1-5.] "And I looked, and lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps; and they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the first-fruits unto God and the Lamb." It is claimed that here are 144,000 at least that John saw in heaven, on mount Zion. (Mount Zion.—"the city of the living God." Heb.) It is claimed that the 144,000 were spirits that had been redeemed, and that John saw them in heaven in the year 96 when he had his vision. We have not time to enter into a detailed exposition of the 144,000 but will with brevity make some remarks on the subject.

With that class of people who suppose that John was merely viewing events that existed in the year 96, the text before us stands as an insurmountable objection to the views we are advocating in this work. But by those who admit that John was viewing events as they would exist in some future time, the text will be found to harmonize perfectly with the doctrine here taught. We shall claim in the onset that John did not state that he saw 144,000 stand on mount Zion in the year 96; but, that he then saw events as they would exist; and at that point in his vision where the 144,000 were redeemed, he saw them stand on mount Zion.

The first five verses of Rev. xiv, are a continuation of the subject introduced in chapter xiii. Commencing with Rev. xii, and closing with these five verses, we have a chain of consecutive events, carrying us from the time of our Saviour's birth to his second advent. Three persecuting powers are introduced which war on Christ and the saints of God.

1. The Dragon. A symbol of Pagan Rome, made war upon the Son of God himself, who was delivered. Rev. xii, 5. "And her child was caught up to God, and his throne."

2. The Dragon gives his power to the seven-headed and ten-horned beast, (Papacy) who made war on the church of God for 42 months. But the beast was to be wounded, led into captivity, and thus the saints of God were to be delivered.

3. A two-horned beast was seen, coming up at the very point where the Papal government ceased, which was also to war on the saints. He in his turn will persecute the saints of God, and make a decree, (as we see by the closing testimony of Rev. xiii,) that they shall be put to death. The first five verses of chapter xiv, show how those fare that have this decree passed against them: they are delivered and stand on mount Zion with the Lamb.

This view of the subject is consistent and in keeping with God's manner of dealing with his people. In other instances, when God has shown by his word a persecution that was coming on his people, he always has shown them the manner of their deliverance. In Dan. vii, there is a prophecy of the little horn (Papacy) that should make war on the saints and prevail against them. If the prophecy had closed with this sad picture of the Papacy's prevailing against the church and putting to death its millions by every means of torture that could be invented, where would have been the encouragement to God's people, to bear up in the hour of trial? "But," says the angel to Daniel, "the saints of the Most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever." Here they find encouragement. Although they may fall by the hand of that persecuting power, the kingdom will at last be theirs. So also in Dan. xii. "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble (on the wicked) such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time; and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book."

Again in Matt. xxiv, Christ says, speaking of the Papal persecution, "For then shall be great tribulation (on the saints) such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." We see in all these instances we have quoted, that God has been careful to show his people their deliverance and the exact manner in which it would be brought about. So in the two first persecutions of Rev. xii, and xiii. The Dragon sought to devour Christ. He was caught up to God and his throne. Second. By claiming the Papal beast with civil authority he cast out a flood of persecution on the church. But the "earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood." Rev. xii, 16. He was led into captivity. Chap. xiii. Napoleon took away the civil power of the Pope.

Does not God prove faithful to his plan in past times, and show his people their deliverance from the work of the two-horned beast? We answer, He does, if the deliverance of the 144,000 is allowed to be the last link in this chain of prophecy. But if it is not the last link, and applies merely to some spirits that John saw in A. D. 96, then we are left to guess what will become of God's saints, when the decrees of the two-horned beast are out against them. We shall claim, that this testimony concerning the 144,000 does not apply to any spirits that were in heaven when John wrote, (John did not say he saw 144,000 spirits,) but that it applies to a deliverance to be wrought for the saints of God at the second coming of Christ. "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshiped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone." Rev. xix, 20. Thus God's saints are delivered.

The deliverance of the 144,000 is not stated to be a deliverance of spirits after the death of the body; for then it would make their deliverance to be the execution of the very decree that was out against them, that they should be put to death. They are not said to be delivered from the state of the dead. But we read, [verse 4.] "These were redeemed from among men," [verse 3,] "they were redeemed from the earth." Then they are to be redeemed from among men on earth; that is, from among the living.

We shall claim them to be those saints who shall be alive when Christ comes to execute vengeance on the wicked governments of earth, and thereby deliver his people. Says Paul, [1 Cor. xv.] "We shall be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye." The saints of God who are alive when Jesus comes are not to die, but will be redeemed from among the living. "We which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds." Those who are thus changed from mortal to immortality, can raise a shout of praise in which no others can join. "O death, where is thy sting?" Death has never stung them, and they can triumphantly shout, "O death, where is thy sting?" John says of the 144,000, "And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the 144,000 which were redeemed from the earth." They are changed from mortal to immortality, and never taste of death. How often we see it stated concerning different individuals that have died, that they got the victory over death, when the facts in the case are, they sunk beneath his icy hand. Paul does not locate the song of victory at death; but "when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?"

This testimony concerning the 144,000 we shall consider as a description of the deliverance of those holy ones who shall be alive when Christ comes. They are to be made partakers of a blessing that but two in the world's history ever experienced; namely, translation to heaven without tasting death. Enoch and Elijah were holy ones. "Enoch walked with God 300 years and was not; for God took him." They also must be holy who would be prepared to partake of Enoch's blessing. John says of them, "In their mouth was found no guile; for they are without fault before the throne of God."

l. But says the objector, I had supposed the 144,000 were spirits of saints that had ascended to mount Zion, and that they were the same that Paul speaks of in Heb. xii, 22, 23. "But ye are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the first-born, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect." Paul could not have meant to tell the Hebrews, in the above testimony, that they had already come to mount Zion, but that their faith reached forward to the time when they would come. It might perhaps read, Ye are coming (we come by faith) to mount Zion * to the general assembly and church of the first-born, which are written in heaven; (margin, enrolled.) Not that the church of the first-born were already there, but their names were written in the Lamb's book of life. "Ye are coming to the spirits of just men made perfect," not to spirits made perfect, but to spirits of men made perfect. The worthies of past ages are not yet made perfect, according to Paul's testimony in Heb. xi, 39, 40. "And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect." Then, when the perfect state comes, all will be perfected together. Paul says, [1 Cor. xiii, 10.] "But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away." "Now we see through a glass darkly, but then face to face." This will be when Christ comes. 1 John iii, 2. "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not appear what we shall be: but we know that when he shall appear we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." We cannot see that this text [Heb. xii.] proves anything in favor of the existence of the spirit

separated from the body. It all applies in the future, and to the time when the saints shall be delivered. Then the saints will not exist as disembodied spirits, but as men, with resurrected, immortal bodies. We suppose Heb. xii, 22, 23, to refer to the deliverance of the saints of God into the kingdom.

m. An objection is urged from the testimony of Christ to the Sadducees: [Matt. xxii, 31, 32:] "Have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living." From this text it is argued that there must be an immortal part of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob that lives while the body is dead, or else God would be the God of the dead. The spirits, or souls, of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, are claimed to be themselves. Therefore God is the God of the living, because they (their spirits) are alive. If we had found testimony that spoke of immortal spirits it might answer to talk thus; but the Bible says of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, They are dead. We have already quoted, in another place, that God told Abraham that he should be buried in a good old age. Paul in Heb. xi, speaks of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob with a host of others, and he says, "These all died in the faith, not having received the promise."

The Jews said to Christ as recorded in John viii, 52, "Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death." But, it is asked, what shall we do with the text above quoted. We answer, let it go as proof of that for which Christ quoted it, not that dead men are alive, but that they shall live again. We can see by reading the context, that the subject introduced is the resurrection. Christ was teaching the sentiment among them that there should be a resurrection, and the class with whom this dispute took place believed in no resurrection. Verses 23-28. "The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him, saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. Now there were with us seven brothers; and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased; and having no issue, left his wife unto his brother. Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh. And last of all the woman died also. Therefore in the resurrection, whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her." Their question was an objection (as they supposed) to the doctrine Christ was teaching, that the dead would rise. Verses 29-32. "Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. But, as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken to you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living." We see from Christ's answer to the Sadducees that his testimony is to show that the dead will rise. We shall admit of no inference that this testimony refers to spirits. There is not one word said in the text, of souls, or spirits; but the testimony is about Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who are dead.

Well, says the objector, if they are dead in the sense you claim, they cannot have a resurrection. There must be some spirit to raise the body. If they are unconscious there is no such spirit remaining in existence. We are aware that popular theology claims that it is not possible to raise man if he dies. If theologians of the present time were asked the question Job asked, [Chap. xiv, 14,] "If a man die shall he live again?" Their answer would be, No. There is no spirit to raise the body. What said Job. "All the days of my appointed time will I wait till my change come. Thou shalt call, and it will answer thee: thou shalt have a desire to the work of thine hands." Again he says, [Chap. xvii, 13,] "If I wait the grave is mine house," &c.

But, says the objector, how are they raised? Answer. By the power of God. It will not answer for us to limit his power, and be Sadducees at last. "God is able of these stones (says Christ) to raise up children to Abraham." If God is able to impart life and activity to a flinty rock, he can re-organize man from the dust, and verify his promise concerning him. If popular theology is true there is no resurrection. They tell us the man does not die, but merely lays off the clog that never had life, except what it derived from the soul. What folly to talk of bringing to life that which never died, (the body,) or of bringing to life that which is alive, (the soul.)

We see by comparing the record of the different evangelists, that we are not mistaken in our claim that Christ was striving in his conversation with the Sadducees to convince them of the resurrection. They professed to believe the testimony of Moses; so Christ quotes Moses as proof of the resurrection. Mark reads, [Chap. xii, 26,] "And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?" Luke's testimony corresponds with that of the others. Chap. xx, 37. "Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he called the Lord the God of Abraham." They all testify that Christ was shewing that the dead would be raised.

But, says the objector, God is not the God of the dead. That is very true; but if Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are never going to live again, God is the God of the dead. The truth in this matter might be embodied in this form.

God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. Therefore Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will live again. From the word of God we learn that death is an unconscious state. A dead man is no more of a timekeeper than a man in a sound sleep, who is wholly unconscious of what transpires around him. In the sacred writings the state of the dead is passed over as a blank space: they (the dead) know no pain, neither is happiness their portion, but they sleep. A man in the resurrection who has been dead 2000 years, will realize no more the time that has elapsed than the one who has been sleeping for an hour; they have both been unconscious.

We understand the truth of this matter before us to stand like this: Abraham, Isaac and Jacob obeyed God, while living, and died in the faith. God purposed that they should have a reward. While dead they are unconscious: the next that is known of them they will be alive. In God's purpose they are alive, or counted the same as living, because his immutable word is, they shall live again. Paul, in Heb. after stating that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob "died in the faith, not having received the promise," says, [verse 16,] "Wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God?" for they are alive? No! No!! "for he hath prepared for them a city." We will now examine the case of

n. MOSES AND ELIAS. Their case is presented as proof that there must be some part of man that is conscious in death. Matt. xvii, 1-3. "Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, and was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. And behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him." The issue raised here is, that Moses' and Elias' souls were seen on the mount. We have the text before us, read it carefully. The words soul and spirit do not occur in the text. In all the testimony we have yet examined, we have failed to find the evidence that man has a principle capable of a conscious existence separate from the body. It therefore becomes those who would favor the doctrine of the natural immortality of the soul, to advance carefully, and not assume the point they wish to prove. But, say you, here is proof. Moses died, and God buried him. Moses was seen on the mount. And as there is no proof that Moses ever had a resurrection, it must have been his soul that the disciples there saw.

The position of those who reason in favor of immortality from this text, might be thrown into the form of the following syllogism. Moses died and God buried him. Moses was seen on the mount; therefore, Moses did not die, but merely his body died. If those who reason on this text are going to claim that Moses was actually seen on the mount, the syllogism should assume this form.

Moses died, and God buried him. Moses was seen on the mount; therefore, Moses had a resurrection. So, we see, instead of claiming that there is no proof that Moses had a resurrection, the text itself is proof of that point, if we claim literally in the case. And if it is claimed as a fact that Moses was actually seen on the mount, it is not difficult to find inferential testimony at least, that the body of Moses was raised. Jude verse 9. "Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil, he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee." Here was a dispute about the body of Moses. If in the plan of God, he had wished to raise Moses for some wise purpose and sent the archangel to accomplish the work, we have no doubt but the devil (who "had the power of death," Heb. ii, 14) would dispute his claim. It is argued by some that as Moses was a type of Christ, it would be consistent to conclude, that Moses had a resurrection, but we will not discuss this point further here, as we are inclined to the position, that Moses and Elias were not literally seen on the mount. Neither do we wish it understood by this statement, that we incline to the position that it was their souls that were seen. According to the present theology in regard to the soul, it cannot be seen with natural eyes; for it is immaterial. A Universalist minister once stated, with whom I was reasoning upon this subject, "The soul is immaterial and cannot be seen with natural eyes; yet Christ, on the mount, so far detached the souls of the disciples from their bodies that they saw the souls of Moses and Elias with their inner vision." But according to this, they came near dying; for death, we are told, is the separation of the soul from the body.

But, says the objector, what are you going to do with the testimony before us, if you believe the disciples did not see Moses and Elias, neither their souls? Christ's own testimony will set the subject forth in its true light. Matt. xvii, 9. "And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man until the Son of man be risen again from the dead." Then the transfiguration on the mount was a vision. It is not necessary to claim that the objects are actually present, that are seen in vision. When a person is in vision an image is formed before the mind.

It is true Christ was actually on the mount, but in vision they saw him transfigured, and glorified; but Jesus was not actually glorified until the day of Pentecost. John vii, 39. "But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive, for the Holy Ghost was not yet given, because that Jesus was not yet glorified." But on the day of Pentecost the Holy Ghost was given.

Daniel had visions in which symbols were introduced. He saw a beast with ten horns, whose nails were of brass, and his teeth of iron. None of us would claim that any such beast ever actually existed. But this figure that was formed before the mind of Daniel, was an exact illustration of a kingdom that should after arise. In some visions of the Bible we find symbols are not used, but an exact image of the things themselves as they will exist, is formed before the mind of the prophet. So in the case before us, we understand the disciples were shown Moses, Elias and Jesus, as they would appear in the kingdom of God. This vision was a fulfillment of what Christ promised eight days before. See Luke ix, 27-31. "But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here which shall not taste of death till they see the kingdom of God. And it came to pass, about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter, and John, and James, and went up into a mountain to pray. And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistening. And behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias: who appeared in glory, and spoke of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem." Here was a vision of the kingdom of God, a miniature representation of the saints as they would exist in the kingdom. Christ was there, presented in his glorified

state as he would appear in the kingdom of heaven: his raiment was white and glistening. Moses was there presented, one who had died, a representative of those who sleep in the grave, who shall be called forth by the voice of Jesus, and be clothed with immortality. Elijah who went up by a whirlwind into heaven was also presented, a representative of those who shall be alive when Jesus comes, who shall be changed in a moment in the twinkling of an eye, and never taste of death.

o. Says the objector, I supposed when a person had a vision their soul was separated from the body and carried to heaven, or where it could view the object concerning which God wished to make a revelation. Paul says he knew a man that was caught up into the third heaven. We will read Paul's testimony and see what is said about the soul in the case of this vision being given. 2 Cor. xii, 1-5. "It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell; God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell; God knoweth,) how that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities."

There is nothing said in the above text about the man's soul being caught up into Paradise, but it was the man himself that was caught up. Had Paul believed that the soul was capable of an existence separated from the body, he would have told us, without doubt that his soul viewed this scene in Paradise, out of the body. We find no testimony in Paul's writings, that man is possessed of a soul independent in its existence. This case before us is merely a vision. Paul himself did not know what condition he was in. It is said, "It is possible for a man to be out of the body, or Paul would not have said 'whether in the body or out of the body.'" Paul does not say it is possible for a man to be out of the body, but he knew a man that was caught up, whether he went up bodily, or merely in vision (out of the body) he could not tell. When he was in vision, the images that were formed before his mind by the power of the Holy Ghost, were as much realities to him as though he had literally gone to heaven and viewed them. In expressing this sentiment he says, "Whether in the body (that is, whether I went to heaven bodily) or out of the body, (I went merely in vision) I cannot tell." There is no proof in this text whatever for the separate existence of the soul, or that visions are caused (as was claimed) by the soul itself leaving the body to view the scenes presented.

(To be Continued.)